Throatsinging in Finland

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Permalink Reply by Sauli Heikkilä on December 8, 2008 at 12:42pm

I don´t know if anybody is reading this.... but I heard, that you can´t watch the programme I mentioned above abroad. Only in Finland. But what you can see, is this Imres perform at khoomei symposium in Tuva 2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgFndO4ML2g

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Permalink Reply by Wolfgang Saus on January 16, 2009 at 4:13pm

Hi Sauli, great that you started this topic. I would like to ask a long carried question about Joik. Several sources mention joik as a finish overtone singing style. I never heared joik with overtone techniques. I suspect that this is a hoax based on the mistranslation of "throat singing", which is used with the meaning of throaty singing but also of overtone singing. Could you tell more, please? Do you know overtone singing in traditional Sami joik?

Wolfgang
www.oberton.org

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Permalink Reply by Lyz Cooper on September 11, 2009 at 10:10am

I have some Sami friends (one is a Shamanka). We had a sharing session one evening - they sang Joik and I overtoned. They were amazed and said they had never heard anything like it! We had a great time! From what I gather there seems to be different kinds of Joik. Joik that uses words to tell stories, and more intuitive Joik, which is more shamanic. Wimme sings both styles (check him out on You Tube), but I haven't yet found actual throat singing.

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Permalink Reply by Sauli Heikkilä on September 11, 2009 at 6:34pm

Jep. Youre right, there is no tradition of throatsinging in Finland - though some joikers have used guttural sound. We started in mid 90´ees, when Albert Kuvezin did co-operation with Global Music Centre in Helsinki and Boris Salchak had a workshop at Haapavesi. So it is mostly Tuvan khoomei, what we do. We have also had some Mongolian workshops by Hosoo.

But in fact already in seventees there was a radioprogramme about folkmusic of Soviet Union and one part was Tuvan khoomei made by Ilpo Saunio. Another Ilpo, composer and ethnomusicologist Ilpo Saastamoinen made the first try of khoomei at their album Pohjantahti 1986. Just listened it with Michael Ormistone and Candida Valentino and it is nice record.

Also there is some overtoners and at least couple of choirs. I dont know much about their works, because I am khoomei-man...

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Permalink Reply by Martin Philippe on January 2, 2011 at 3:01am

It seems for me not being so far. Joik is not only melodic singing but also with guttural and nasal sounds... Not diphonic, but harmonic sounding. And the most traditional saami instrument is an harmonic flute. There is probably same old origin of circumpolar/shamanic cultures - see on wikipedia,...
If someone have, thanks for information about meeting or mixing joik and throat singing.
Philmar

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Permalink Reply by Sauli Heikkilä on January 2, 2011 at 10:21am

Hi Philippe

Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.

Sauli

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Permalink Reply by Martin Philippe on January 2, 2011 at 4:07pm

Sauli Heikkilä said:

Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.

Sauli

Hi Sauli,
I've seen the fadno flute in some saami websites, and at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_music . Some says the Lur (natural horn) was played too by Saamis.
All types of singing is sounding with overtones of course, but the traditional joik style is playing with the timbre as much as with melody and rythm. It seems for me that each of those 3 aspects is simple, not consciously developped, but in an instinctive balance of singing manners. As a singer I think it's interesting...

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Permalink Reply by Sauli Heikkilä on January 2, 2011 at 9:40pm

Never heard but I am not specialised in Sami culture. Must raise the subject when meeting some professionals.

Joik is sung by open throat, in my mind anyway. More like in arabian culture, north american pow wow, some styles of Taiwanese aboriginals. But yes, it is interresting to compare styles and wonder the similarities.



Philippe Martin - Philmar said:

Sauli Heikkilä said:

Hmm... Practically you can pick what-ever-singing technic in the world and you can find as much similarities as between joik and khoomei. With the flute there must be some misunderstanding. So far I know, flute just don´t belong in saami tradition. Singing has always been á cappella and only instrument they use is drum.

Sauli

Hi Sauli,
I've seen the fadno flute in some saami websites, and at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_music . Some says the Lur (natural horn) was played too by Saamis.
All types of singing is sounding with overtones of course, but the traditional joik style is playing with the timbre as much as with melody and rythm. It seems for me that each of those 3 aspects is simple, not consciously developped, but in an instinctive balance of singing manners. As a singer I think it's interesting...

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Permalink Reply by Stacey on March 23, 2011 at 6:50am

Sverige's Radio has a series on Jojk and it contains examples of jojk with some kargyraa-like sounds and jojk that utilizes some overtones for embellishment/ornamentation.

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Permalink Reply by Wolfgang Saus on March 23, 2011 at 12:28pm

Hi Stacey,
thanks for your post. Do you have a recording of joik with overtones?

I just came back from the (marvelous) Scandinavian Overtone Singing Festival where I participated in an
introductory workshops on joik given by Sanna Kurki-Suonio from Finland. She knows may different styles but didn't know any which uses overtone singing techniques.

German Wikipedia still describes joik as "monotonous-guttural throat singing of the Sami". If you have examples than they are right. I'd very much like to hear them.

Wolfgang






Stacey said:

Sverige's Radio has a series on Jojk and it contains examples of jojk with some kargyraa-like sounds and jojk that utilizes some overtones for embellishment/ornamentation.

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Permalink Reply by Sauli Heikkilä on March 23, 2011 at 1:07pm

Joik singers as others listen all kind of music so they take influences. All though I have heard some old harsh voice recordings and also some old gypsy singer who sung with ”khoomei”;o) So no doupt.

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Permalink Reply by 1x2nbseym7ijt on March 23, 2011 at 6:00pm

If I'm not mistaken, there is a duo of bards featured in the movie "Ronja, Robber's Daughter" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088015/ that sing a neat style. I always think of these guys when I hear the term Joik, but I'm probably far off, eh?

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