Hello famefans!
These days where all overtone singers are pocket gurus enlightening the world that tone, colour, planets, chakras etc is all the same soup I think it is really necessary to draw the attention to the few researchers who have gone a little deeper in to the exploration of the nature of harmonics - also on a theoretical level:
Hans Jenny
Hans Kayser
And a long line of ancients:
Nichomachus
Iamplicus
Plato
Pythagoras
Archytas
Jing Fang
Boetius
,...
And renaissance:
Ficino
Gaffurio
Zarlino
Reisch
Fludd
Kepler
,...
Sorry I don't intend to muddy what is a good idea. It's about getting the concept right. I do think that the Throat Singing Hall of Fame is very different from an Overtone Singing Hall of Fame and that maybe the former would be applicable in Tuva and the latter in cyberspace. Re the former, I imagine titling Tuvan Throat Singing Hall of Fame is probably the most apt given that, for example great throat singers of Sardinia (and other countries) would not be represented - otherwise it might have to be a very large hall. Objectivity of selection and the issue of 'ownership' of is important also.
Hi,
sorry, but maybe I don't understand. Is Steve's goal to create a roll of "Overtone World Singers" about the best contributors? I read all yours posts on this discussion, but I'm not able to comprehend.
I would like to see a "3-d" facility that serves as an educational and multicultural hub or center for all types of throat-and-overtone singing. Part of such a place would be an area honoring the most significant, important, and influential artists, and other relevant and related people such as researchers, musicians, authors and perhaps other popularisers, etc. Here we often call such an entity an "Hall of Fame." Ideally, an international panel would be charged with nominations and inclusions.
I imagine this place to be in Kyzyl, possibly associated with the Tuvan National Museum. Of course, some form of web presence would be good, and expected, but again for me the main idea is as described above.
I understand that English is not Marco's or many others' native tongue, and I've tried to be clear and succinct. But, perhaps someone could provide translations of this topic for those who need it?
Dean, again I see this as a "big tent" approach. ALL types of TS and OS included. I may be wrong, but while there are many cultures involved, which should be included, they don't all necessarily have individuals who might rate being honored as Hall of Fame inductees.
Even among Tuvans and Mongolians, the best known of the TS regions, the first nominees would likely be represented at first by, say (arbitrarily, and only to make my point).
An initial listing might include:
Tuva: Soruktu Kyrgys, Kombu Ondar, Xunashtaar-ool Oorzhak, Gennadi Tumat, Kaigal-ool Khovalyg, etc. Groups such as Tuva Ensemble, HHT, Chirgilchin...
There is the crucial question of how the Hall of Fame would be titled. I imagine, and it's only my opinion, that a throat singing Hall of Fame needs to be country specific and distinguishable from an overtone singing one, which should probably be worldwide and could easily be cyber. It'd be a travesty if an 'international throat singing H of F' overly celebrated throat singers from just one country, or failed to honour those who really should be represented. Hence I think, say, a 'Tuvan throat singing Hall of Fame' would most appropriately honour the finest Tuvan throat singers, and that it might be incongruous for Stockhausen or numerous others to be there. Yet as Jens suggested Stockhausen would arguably be the first to feature in an overtone singing Hall of Fame, given his pioneering contribution. I agree with Steve that those who deserve to be honoured should indeed be singers of the highest quality, yet there would need to be exceptions. Eg: Arthur C Miles is monumental as the first western example yet he probably wasn't the greatest of throat singers. Has anyone heard recordings of him? The idea of a H of F is an excellent one - I think the concept and criterion needs to be thought through and developed.
Arthur Miles: maybe not the greatest, no. Actually, not an throat-singer at all. But pretty darned nice, IMO, plus more ambitious and interesting than a lot of what I hear today. And I know he sounded better than the marginal quality recording. Of course, YMMV. Recorded in the late 20s; the earliest Tuvan or Mongolian recordings that I'm aware of date to around 1934, Tibetan chant around 1960. So, maybe I'd include him as a performer, but I'd certainly make sure he was represented in some fashion.
It's been a while since reading up on some of these folks, like Stockhausen. A pioneer in the "classical" world, but decades after Mr. Miles. I remember Stimmung, which although always mentioned for its cultural significance, but didn't do much for me, as a listener. Did he do another vocal overtone piece later? Can't recall, no time to look it up.
I'd consider David Hykes, Michael Vetter and Tran Quang Hai as the more influential OS pioneers, with Hykes and Hai going back to what, about 1970?
I think the idea is a good one. From a worldwide perspective our art is so little known and celebrated and many of those who do know of it have misconceptions about it. And unlike other arts, such as the beautiful Japanese bamboo flute the shakuhachi, there is no recognition system of mastery. To me our art is the most amazing and under-rated of the arts. Anything that positively promotes and educates about throat/overtone singing to a wider audience should be embraced.
I agree with you Dean: Anything that positively promotes and educates about throat singing, overtone singing and harmonic chant to a wider audience should be really embraced.
yes steve and dean, it sounds convincing. and perhaps it leads to a more systematical approach than just a, let's say, ancestral gallery. would be nice to have a worldwide working society anytime wich runs concerts and research, bundles related activities, collects compositions, articles, music, compares educational, mathematical, physical systems aso. but yet overtone singing is a young phenomenon in western cultures with less social impact. for now we have to consider, most of all the misconceptions about it belong to it's own foremost appearance or attitude. it seems we have to be patient. every step is welcome. and we already have this nice network.
Wow, responses! Anyway, there's more to my notion; as I wrote to an official in Tuva:
" I've been thinking there should be such a facility somewhere, and with my ties to Tuva and it's place as one of the true centers of this vocal art, naturally thought it might be a good match. Might be a nice auxiliary of the new National museum. or independent. I remember from my trips in '95 and 2001 that there was nothing really seeming to promote khoomei; even police on the street that we would ask for directions to the Khoomei Center just gave us blank looks. Perhaps that's changed, I don't know. I've shared the idea with some others in the worldwide throat/overtone singing community and await more feedback.
But, I need to be very clear that for me to be involved that it be inclusive of other TS cultures, and of "western" overtone singers as well, and that it would ideally house some exhibits with recordings, photos, videos, other related educational, historic and culturally relevant information, in addition to areas that would house whatever form the tribute to inductees would take.
To me, the idea of such a "Hall of Fame" is largely to promote the arts of throat-and-overtone singing, in part by honoring deserving "star performers" and the other categories that I mentioned (open to all throat and overtone singers, if notable/important/influential (and related scholars, educators, promoters) not just Tuvans? Of course, I suggest openness.). If that is inclusive, as I described, it would lend some international credibility, and it would be easier to get support both financial and otherwise, as opposed to just including Tuvans. It would give others a feeling that they have a direct interest. Perhaps such an international approach would even give a boost to Tuvan peoples' esteem, too, as well as creating attention elsewhere and perhaps having a positive effect on tourism (if that's desirable?)."
Anyway, I'd love more ideas and feedback, but am flying to PA to teach for a few days. Back next week.
Replies
These days where all overtone singers are pocket gurus enlightening the world that tone, colour, planets, chakras etc is all the same soup I think it is really necessary to draw the attention to the few researchers who have gone a little deeper in to the exploration of the nature of harmonics - also on a theoretical level:
Hans Jenny
Hans Kayser
And a long line of ancients:
Nichomachus
Iamplicus
Plato
Pythagoras
Archytas
Jing Fang
Boetius
,...
And renaissance:
Ficino
Gaffurio
Zarlino
Reisch
Fludd
Kepler
,...
sorry, but maybe I don't understand. Is Steve's goal to create a roll of "Overtone World Singers" about the best contributors? I read all yours posts on this discussion, but I'm not able to comprehend.
I would like to see a "3-d" facility that serves as an educational and multicultural hub or center for all types of throat-and-overtone singing. Part of such a place would be an area honoring the most significant, important, and influential artists, and other relevant and related people such as researchers, musicians, authors and perhaps other popularisers, etc. Here we often call such an entity an "Hall of Fame." Ideally, an international panel would be charged with nominations and inclusions.
I imagine this place to be in Kyzyl, possibly associated with the Tuvan National Museum. Of course, some form of web presence would be good, and expected, but again for me the main idea is as described above.
I understand that English is not Marco's or many others' native tongue, and I've tried to be clear and succinct. But, perhaps someone could provide translations of this topic for those who need it?
Dean, again I see this as a "big tent" approach. ALL types of TS and OS included. I may be wrong, but while there are many cultures involved, which should be included, they don't all necessarily have individuals who might rate being honored as Hall of Fame inductees.
Even among Tuvans and Mongolians, the best known of the TS regions, the first nominees would likely be represented at first by, say (arbitrarily, and only to make my point).
An initial listing might include:
Tuva: Soruktu Kyrgys, Kombu Ondar, Xunashtaar-ool Oorzhak, Gennadi Tumat, Kaigal-ool Khovalyg, etc. Groups such as Tuva Ensemble, HHT, Chirgilchin...
Mongolia: Sundui, Sengedorj, Tserendaava, Odsuren, Hosoo, etc...
OS: Arthur Miles, David Hykes, Michael Vetter, etc...
Academics: Ted Levin, Zoya Kyrgys, Valentina Suzukei, Tran Quang Hai...
So, those are just a few examples that spring to mind, and others as well.
Thanks,
Steve
http://www.khoomei.com/mp3s/amiles1.mp3
http://www.khoomei.com/mp3s/amiles2.mp3
It's been a while since reading up on some of these folks, like Stockhausen. A pioneer in the "classical" world, but decades after Mr. Miles. I remember Stimmung, which although always mentioned for its cultural significance, but didn't do much for me, as a listener. Did he do another vocal overtone piece later? Can't recall, no time to look it up.
I'd consider David Hykes, Michael Vetter and Tran Quang Hai as the more influential OS pioneers, with Hykes and Hai going back to what, about 1970?
" I've been thinking there should be such a facility somewhere, and with my ties to Tuva and it's place as one of the true centers of this vocal art, naturally thought it might be a good match. Might be a nice auxiliary of the new National museum. or independent. I remember from my trips in '95 and 2001 that there was nothing really seeming to promote khoomei; even police on the street that we would ask for directions to the Khoomei Center just gave us blank looks. Perhaps that's changed, I don't know. I've shared the idea with some others in the worldwide throat/overtone singing community and await more feedback.
But, I need to be very clear that for me to be involved that it be inclusive of other TS cultures, and of "western" overtone singers as well, and that it would ideally house some exhibits with recordings, photos, videos, other related educational, historic and culturally relevant information, in addition to areas that would house whatever form the tribute to inductees would take.
To me, the idea of such a "Hall of Fame" is largely to promote the arts of throat-and-overtone singing, in part by honoring deserving "star performers" and the other categories that I mentioned (open to all throat and overtone singers, if notable/important/influential (and related scholars, educators, promoters) not just Tuvans? Of course, I suggest openness.). If that is inclusive, as I described, it would lend some international credibility, and it would be easier to get support both financial and otherwise, as opposed to just including Tuvans. It would give others a feeling that they have a direct interest. Perhaps such an international approach would even give a boost to Tuvan peoples' esteem, too, as well as creating attention elsewhere and perhaps having a positive effect on tourism (if that's desirable?)."
Anyway, I'd love more ideas and feedback, but am flying to PA to teach for a few days. Back next week.
Thanks,
Steve
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